Memorization (when you hate it)

twocats · 2025-03-21T05:43:16+00:00

My friend, a very good pianist, is encouraging me to start memorizing some of my pieces. His teacher says it opens up another dimension to your playing beca...

Stub

keystring I literally recorded every stage of practising yesterday, with an experimental aim of memorizing. You will not find a single error. My aim was to get the correct notes and chords in the right order. Timing was allowed to be approximate if need be, and would be addressed at a later stage.

In the final test recording at the end HT, all notes are correct. There are pauses.

Well, we have different definitions of what constitutes error-free, which is fine. Picking one thing (notes/chords, for example, while ignoring timing/rhythm), then yes, error-free is possible and you did what you set out to do. For me, notes and timing/rhythm are the one thing usually set in stone in a score and it is my belief that most people do not get those correct every time from the very start of learning a piece.

keystring

Stub Well, we have different definitions of what constitutes error-free, which is fine. Picking one thing (notes/chords, for example, while ignoring timing/rhythm), then yes, error-free is possible and you did what you set out to do. For me, notes and timing/rhythm are the one thing usually set in stone in a score and it is my belief that most people do not get those correct every time from the very start of learning a piece.

We'd need to discuss the process of practising and preparing a piece, as opposed to the final form of the piece - the thing we are aiming for at the end of that process, and what will be the performed piece. People have and are taught different methodologies. I record a lot of the stages because I work with a teacher in another country, and you'd hear both. There is method behind those stages.

In this case I aimed to memorize the notes of that section and did so in one day in two sessions. I "have" the notes and they are correct. Were I preparing this piece, the next day I'd join together the timing of the pauses between sections. In a subsequent time, I'd work on dynamics, interpretation, and a faster tempo. The end result would be correct, as intended, and musical. This is how I learned to work, and it has served me. Memorizing isn't a thing I usually do. This required an extra stage of making sure one has the right notes in the first place.

There are other methodologies. For example, broken chords may be played as block chords so as to get the harmonies - and then as block chords. I've heard of playing a passage in different rhythms to get control in the hands, and then the correct rhythm, now with the good control. Neither the block chord stage, nor the rhythm stage, are "errors". They are building blocks toward the final result you want. It is controlled, deliberate, with purpose.

Does any of that make sense or are any of these things familiar?

twocats

keystring Neither the block chord stage, nor the rhythm stage, are "errors". They are building blocks toward the final result you want. It is controlled, deliberate, with purpose.

I agree. I'm doing this right now, exaggerating the ends of phrases so that there's a slight pause between them as I solidify the notes. My brain knows it's not supposed to be played like that and that it needs to focus on the correct notes first.

ShiroKuro

twocats I have the Henle app on my phone so I pulled up the score but of course I could barely read it because the notes were so tiny. But it helped as a guide! Maybe it's a good exercise to use my phone as a slight assist as needed while I'm still working on memorizing. I can't sight read using my phone but I'm not completely lost, either!

That sounds like a good idea! The “slight assist” is probably a good intermediate point b/w totally reading and totally from memory.

keystring

Thanks, @twocats

I remembered one example. I did the Chopin etude 25 no. 12 last year, and worked a lot with Woroniki's material. I did and then used the various exercises in this video, and a few others.

at the time stamp, he is dragging along limp hands individually playing only some of the notes (not what Chopin wrote)
at 1:44 the hands move in contrary motion but stationary which fits the symmetry of the hands. Chopin definitely didn't write that.
at 1:53 it's pure contrary motion.
at 2:07 it's parallel motion. Now we finally do have what Chopin wrote. but certainly not with those pauses or that tempo
All of this was for relaxed wrists, and thus the hand looks so limp and dragged along
2:22 we switch to the fingers, "butterfly wings". Part of what follows looks almost disturbingly tense.
3:37 we're back to the music in the actual piece, played staccato, which is what you actually do, letting the pedal blur the notes
https://youtu.be/VADZstN2pO8?t=89

Here is a shorter one with another approach, and again, not the rhythms that are written into the music.

https://youtu.be/OfXWWaxm9vk

keystring

(apologies for the OT on both of these)

Another was working on the Beethoven Pathetique and lessons by Graham Fitch. This probably illustrates the idea even better of having processes while working on a piece where you're not playing it as written. In the whole course, in another section he changes the rhythm.

https://youtu.be/C5_7EaC2l_g

keystring

I seem to have killed the discussion in the off topic bit.

For the memorization exercise I tried, some takeaways personally was to keep it simple and short enough. Building on top of things if the music is complex seemed to help. I wanted to keep checking back (somewhat like what the pianist in the YT video did). Errors I tended to make was: knowing a chord is D7 or D9 or D, and putting in too many or too few notes; playing in the wrong octave.

twocats

I'm trying a different piece to memorize: Chopin's Impromptu No. 2. The patterns are more consistent than the Ballade 2 (the patterns in the slow part are so inconsistent and I saw that someone else found it to be a difficult piece to memorize), plus I don't know the Impromptu aside from hearing it here and there so I'm going to attempt to memorize as I learn it. Trying very hard to just limit myself to a few bars at a time!

twocats

twocats I'm trying a different piece to memorize: Chopin's Impromptu No. 2.

I've successfully memorized the first 3.5 lines, it's very slow going! I think it helps me to learn the section first so that I'm very familiar with it before I focus on memorizing. If I try to memorize and learn at the same time I'm way too afraid I'll lock in the wrong information!

Hands separately is really helping. I see patterns that I would never have noticed before. I had lunch with a new friend who is a piano teacher and who is serious about performing and she says she actually breaks up the voices and memorizes them separately! Her teacher had told her that it's really important to do so to lock it into your memory.

Anyway, it's still very slow and difficult for me. But I do feel a bit of emotional freedom playing the first few lines by memory, even if I'm not confident. I think this process is very good for me even if I never end up playing without the security of the score.

ShiroKuro

twocats I've successfully memorized the first 3.5 lines

Awesome

twocats I do feel a bit of emotional freedom playing the first few lines by memory, even if I'm not confident.

That's great!!

keystring

twocats 've successfully memorized the first 3.5 lines, it's very slow going! I think it helps me to learn the section first so that I'm very familiar with it before I focus on memorizing. If I try to memorize and learn at the same time I'm way too afraid I'll lock in the wrong information!

It is interesting, and probably useful to many who read or will read your post, to follow the processes you've been trying, and your results. It seems that you are getting results.

I'd like to ask about this part:

twocats wrote
I think it helps me to learn the section first so that I'm very familiar with it before I focus on memorizing.

I realized some time back that when people use the word "learn" for music, it may not mean what I picture it meaning. In fact, the default has seemed to mean "memorize" - when someone talked about learning a piece, they meant memorizing. Since I usually never memorize, by that definition I've seldom "learned" a piece. But what I did do was to familiarize myself thoroughly, the different aspects, to ultimately be able to play it well. Even if I looked at the score, I knew what was in it and what to find there. Is this your kind of "learn"?

thepianoplayer416

The last piece I played in 1 page (23 bars) was memorized. When you repeat a piece enough times, you're going to get some of it in your head whether you remember the notes or the finger sequences (muscle memory). I often find learning the notes less of an issue than trying to play pieces at an ideal tempo. Many intermediate & advance pieces have tricky fingerings. Playing slow isn't a big issue but when we speed up the piece to a certain point it starts to fall apart.

twocats

thepianoplayer416 it sounds like you don't struggle with memorizing. That's nice for you.

pianoloverus

I think most pianists at least partially memorize a piece while they're learning the notes, figuring out fingerings, and practicing it with the score. Then they go back and see which parts need more work to memorize fully. I have never tried to memorize a piece from the beginning although I guess some pianists work that way.

ShiroKuro

@thepianoplayer416 and @pianoloverus I think what you both are talking about is a sort of passive memorization. And I think that probably many people can take advantage of that.

I think what @twocats is doing, and what the video that was shared above described, is anything but passive.

I wouldn't say passive memorization is bad or unhelpful, but I suspect that actively deploying various techniques with the specific aim of memorizing is quite different, and benefit in significantly different ways.

twocats

keystring But what I did do was to familiarize myself thoroughly, the different aspects, to ultimately be able to play it well. Even if I looked at the score, I knew what was in it and what to find there. Is this your kind of "learn"?

Yes, I want to basically be able to play it fluently with the score. Some finger memory is there by the time I get to this point. But also (very importantly) I have to internalize what it's supposed to sound like, since I don't know the piece.

The next section I'm learning and starting to memorize at the same time because it is simpler (very repetitive left hand) and I don't think I have to struggle so much to learn how it sounds and feels. It goes into a section with huge octave jumps where I'll have to look down the whole time to play at speed anyway, and would have had to memorize it 🙂

ShiroKuro

@keystring good point about the word "learn." I don't memorize either. So when I say "learn" I mean some combination of the following:

learn how to read-play it
get it into my fingers
get it up to tempo
learn the technical aspects of playing it
settle on and habituate a certain set of fingerings
make it not just playable but musical

And more.

pianoloverus

People will not, of course, agree on what "learning" a piece means, but I do think that for many people memorization is not required their personal definition of learning a piece. If memorization was required for learning a piece than all present day chamber music players, orchestral musicians, and pianists before the time of Liszt didn't learn any pieces.

keystring

@twocats , @ShiroKuro , @pianoloverus - I'm relieved to see those answers, because that is how I understood learning a piece. But on the other site I so often saw the word "learn" being used for "memorize" that I made note of that apparently common usage. It's not something I could identify with.

thepianoplayer416

The person who uploaded the video suggested spending more time listening to music actually save time practicing. If you want to "memorize" a piece, you'd listen to it over and over. When you sit down to play the notes, it's already in your head so remembering what to play would take less effort.

https://youtu.be/crcFB5WapXU?si=5ijsHnTHHPzO4slb

The original title of the video: "The Real Secret to Piano Mastery Isn’t Practice... It’s THIS!" from "Heart of the Piano" on YouTube if the link doesn't open.

TheBoringPianist

thepianoplayer416 The person who uploaded the video suggested spending more time listening to music actually save time practicing. If you want to "memorize" a piece, you'd listen to it over and over. When you sit down to play the notes, it's already in your head so remembering what to play would take less effort.

That video showed up on my feed — I haven't gotten around to watching it at 1.5x yet but this is actually my default way to learn a piece. I think this is because my reading processing speed for music is super slow, so getting something in my auditory memory first helps me progress more quickly getting it into my fingers. As an analogy: rather than just-in-time processing the image input stream directly in buffer, I need to save the audio input stream to HDD ahead of time then pull into RAM at runtime to be able to keep up.

ShiroKuro

thepianoplayer416 The person who uploaded the video suggested spending more time listening to music actually save time practicing. If you want to "memorize" a piece, you'd listen to it over and over. When you sit down to play the notes, it's already in your head so remembering what to play would take less effort.

Ok, first full disclosure that I haven’t watched the video yet (I’m the only one in my house awake right now, my mother is here visiting us and I don’t want to wake anybody up) so maybe I’ll comment again after watching…but here’s my comment with that as a caveat….

This part: “If you want to "memorize" a piece, you'd listen to it over and over. When you sit down to play the notes, it's already in your head so remembering what to play would take less effort.“ doesn’t ring true to me.

Because I do listen to my pieces over and over.

I choose my repertoire pieces based on music I listen to, fall in love with and decide I want to play it. Often, by the time I start working on a piece, I’ve listened to it countless times and it’s been on my “play next” list for months (or years). And during that time, while the piece is on my list but I haven’t played it yet, I am continually listening to it. It was always like this even back when I used to buy CDs, but now that a lot of my listening happens through online radio like Pandora and Spotify, I hear these pieces over and over (because of the stupid algorithms). And with a lot of my most favorite composers, I also buy their albums and then listen offline when I get tired of the algorithms. And not only am I listening to the pieces over and over, some people might remember that I play contemporary music (think Einaudi, Winston, Ffrench), so I’m listening to only one version over and over (the composer playing the original recording).

So with almost all of the pieces I play, in terms of the “music” of it, I’ve already “memorized” it. Not the playing of it, but the listening of.

I’m not saying that some kind of active listening (like active memorization I mentioned in an earlier post) wouldn’t be beneficial, I’m sure it would. IOW, listening with the score out…

I guess all I’m saying is, I already listen over and over. That’s not going to tips the scales and suddenly make memorization easier for me.

Maybe this is just an extension of the difference between people who are better at playing by ear and/or memorizing vs. people who are better at reading and/or playing from the score.

twocats

thepianoplayer416 The person who uploaded the video suggested spending more time listening to music actually save time practicing. If you want to "memorize" a piece, you'd listen to it over and over. When you sit down to play the notes, it's already in your head so remembering what to play would take less effort.

Caveat: I clicked on the link and saw the description but did not watch.

I think this advice is more for students who don't listen to the music they're learning. It helps to know what to expect when you're memorizing, for sure. And hearing and internalizing what good phrasing and tone sounds like is the best way to improve your own playing, if you're not at the point where you have it already.

But specific things, like accents that happen in some places but not others, or other funny/weird variations may not be obvious when you're listening, and only playing and seeing the score is going to help with that.

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